Follow Their Lead - A 2nd Petrus Development Show Episode on Fundraising Etiquette

We're glad you're back for our second Petrus Development Show episode highlighting etiquette tips for fundraisers.  As with our previous episode on good dining behavior, Andrew and Rhen offer specific rules for formal table manners.  Again, we know this is a unique topic for one of our shows, but as we all know, fundraising is about relationships.  If your dinner etiquette is rude or unappealing, it absolutely affects your ability to raise funds and grow donor relationships. 

Show Notes: 

Our first etiquette episode offered behavior protocol for arriving at the restaurant and settling in at the table, and this episode focuses on the meal itself.  How should you order?  What do you do when food arrives?  What should do do when the meal ends?  Who should pay the check?  Have you ever wondered any of these things but been to embarrassed to ask?  If so, listen up!  Andrew and Rhen share answers to all of these questions and more! 

If the summary for part 1 of our etiquette series was "do no harm", this second episode can be summed up with a short "follow their lead".  Watch your host and model your behavior after theirs.  In doing so, you are less likely to embarrass or offend!

Would you like a summary of all of our Petrus fundraising etiquette tips in one place?  If so, click here to download our summary list of all things table manners and event protocol.  

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

02:34.60
Host: Well, howdy everybody. Welcome back to the Petrus Development show. I'm Rhen Hoehn from Petrus Development and joined today by Andrew Robison, owner and president of Petrus. How's it going, Andrew?

02:43.81
AROB: Ho, ho, ho, it's going well. I'm gearing up for Christmas, looking forward to it this year.

02:48.90
Host: I was very tempted to start with a "ho ho howdy," but I just don't think it was going to work.

02:54.50
AROB: For all the occasions that I have been around people and events where people say howdy around Christmas time, I've never heard somebody actually use "ho, ho, howdy." So you would have been a first.

03:07.98
Host: It's an outsider's thing, I guess, right? It would have tagged me right away. Everybody would have known.

03:13.24
AROB: But then who is this noob?

03:17.75
Host: Oh, excellent. So, last episode, let's dive into this here. Last episode, we started talking about dinner etiquette. We were still recovering from our children's poor dinner etiquette at Thanksgiving. Now we've been training them for the last few weeks, getting them ready for Christmas dinner. Hopefully they're improving.

03:37.02
Host: Now it's time to start talking about the meal itself, right? You're sitting down to a meal with donors or whatever it might be at a fundraising event, at a Christmas gala or banquet or whatever it might be.

03:46.22
Host: Let's talk about what you should and shouldn't do. In my own experience, going to a bunch of different types of dinners like this with donors, with groups, there's a few of these things that I want to highlight as maybe pet peeves. I thought this was common knowledge. Apparently, it's not.

04:09.05
Host: So on the last episode, we talked about, like I said, kind of everything leading up to the meal. You get seated at the table. You're figuring out the landscape of all the silverware, all the glasses, what's going on there. How do you navigate all that? Let's talk about ordering your meal. I feel like it's a little bit intimidating when you first get started. Like, "Oh, what should I order?" How should I approach what I order for food as the waiter comes around?

04:27.36
AROB: Yes. Yes. I will answer that question in one second after I turn back on my light that turned off because I was standing here too still for too long. Hold on.

04:37.69
Host: Oops.

04:52.00
AROB: Okay, I'm back. And thanks to the magic of editing, you probably didn't realize that I was gone. So how about that? So yeah, ordering your meal when you're with a donor, when you're at an event, usually you're not ordering meals, right? It's the same chicken dinner. It's the same options—salmon or, you know, beef wellington or whatever.

05:13.79
AROB: But when you're at a dinner with donors, then ordering your meal is important. So a couple of simple tips.

05:24.54
AROB: Number one, don't order the most expensive thing on the menu unless the host is pressuring you or encouraging you to, right? Don't think, "Hey, I'm going out..."

05:32.77
Host: Right.

05:33.87
AROB: "I've got the company credit card. I'm going to order—we're doing lobster tonight!" Right? It's a bad look. Don't do that. So pretty simple first step.

05:42.51
Host: Keep it simple.

05:43.27
AROB: Yep.

05:44.05
Host: Yeah, I remember one donor meeting that I went to where we were at a seafood restaurant. We were actually in Texas and the donors clearly were very well known at this restaurant. All the wait staff greeted them by name.

05:53.88
AROB: Because I remember this, yeah.

05:55.60
Host: Yeah, you were with... that's right. And they really wanted us to have the best food at this restaurant. And they said, "Oh, we're going to pay. We're going to pay. You've got to get this..." I can't remember which fish was this really fancy, expensive one that I never would have ordered on my own, but they insisted. So alright, if you insist, let's do it and it'll make you happy. Sometimes you get that situation that comes up.

06:20.15
AROB: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, keep in mind that you want to be good stewards of your resources and have a good look in front of your donors. So keep it simple. Don't order the most expensive thing. But on that note, it's helpful even just to let your host order first, right? Because then you know kind of where they're thinking.

06:43.13
AROB: Not that if they order a po'boy, you have to order a po'boy, but you can kind of get a sense of like, "Alright, I'm going to have these two or three options in my mind," or just ask them ahead of time, "Hey, what are you going to order? What looks good? What do you recommend?" That's a good way to just kind of feed the conversation and then also figure out where I'm going to fall given a couple of options.

07:05.53
Host: Exactly. And it's tricky. Once in a while you get where the person you're meeting for dinner says, "Oh, why don't you go ahead? You order," like, "Oh no," and I don't know. Then you kind of just have to look for something that's kind of middle of the road, not too fancy, but not too shabby.

07:19.16
Host: Like a chicken breast with some rice and vegetables.

07:23.52
Host: That's a pretty safe standard meal.

07:25.15
AROB: Yeah.

07:25.68
Host: Just kind of keep it right down the middle, I guess.

07:28.49
AROB: Yeah. What about alcohol? How do you feel about drinking at the meal?

07:34.42
Host: So a few episodes back, Matt Bond was on here with me and we talked about alcohol at fundraising events specifically, but I think his words kind of ring true. It's really not worth it unless the donor is kind of insisting you have a drink with them. I would just avoid it.

07:50.46
Host: If at all possible, or keep it to a minimum. I remember in that episode, Matt had a little bit different situation. If we were at dinner, he can't do this necessarily. But at events, he would ask the bartender, "Hey, I'm going to buy this beer from you..."

08:04.06
Host: "I want you to dump the beer out and fill this bottle with water."

08:05.97
AROB: Okay.

08:07.29
Host: Right. And so he could still kind of mix at a cocktail event or a reception without having the effects of alcohol to worry about.

08:14.17
Host: And so, even though it's fun to have a cocktail sometimes, when you're at a professional event like this and you're representing your organization, you want to keep your mental faculties as sharp as possible.

08:25.62
AROB: 100%. And, you know, I can't think of many things worse than you starting off—the waiter comes over, says "What would you like, sir?"

08:35.92
AROB: And you say, "Ah, double scotch on the rocks." And then your guest, who you're there to build a relationship with...

08:44.47
AROB: Says, "Nothing for me, I don't drink ever. And I find people that drink to be abhorrent and debaucherous." And, you know, alright, maybe it's not gonna happen like that. But you know what I mean? Like, alcohol kind of has this—some people feel totally ambivalent towards it, and some people have really strong opinions. And I'm kind of with Matt, it's not worth it. Unless there's some pressure or some encouragement from your guests, "Hey, order a beer. I'm going to get a beer. I love this beer and they don't have it at all the restaurants where you're from." Okay, fine. I'll have it and then just sip it as slowly as you can.

09:21.64
Host: Exactly. "Oh, let's have a toast to this thing" or whatever, you know?

09:25.65
Host: Yeah, we always want to be as careful as possible. Any other considerations of what food you order?

09:30.52
AROB: So I think on the last episode, we talked about what an oyster fork was.

09:36.28
AROB: Oysters are not something that you want to be ordering at a fancy dinner with a donor. And the reason for that is because it's involved and it's a potentially messy dish. I generally just steer clear of messy dishes.

09:49.74
AROB: You know, like the appetizers you got to eat with your hands or dip, or messy like you do with oysters. Spaghetti, even. Right? It can be tasty, but it's going to be a bad look if you get spaghetti on your tie when you didn't have to, or French onion soup, or sandwiches in general if you're at a restaurant with somebody. Just try to go simple.

10:13.96
AROB: Right. Don't think of this as "this is my chance to eat something fancy and something that I would never get." Unless your donor that you're there with is encouraging you, keep it simple and order food that's easy to eat.

10:28.14
AROB: That you can put your fork down and have a conversation with in the middle of it, and you're not kind of dripping grease all over your face as a result of what you ordered.

10:36.80
Host: Exactly. So let's move into, you've got your food now. We're sitting down and we're eating.

10:40.27
AROB: Yeah, let me tell you one more story real quick, because I just thought about this.

10:44.16
AROB: I remember I was at the medical school, and I went to dinner with a couple, and I knew them. We had known each other for a while through the relationship, not before—through the work.

10:56.01
AROB: But we met at this restaurant and sat down, and it was kind of like—we were in Dallas, and you know everything in Dallas is boujier than it has to be—and so it was like a tavern but it had nice food. So I was like, I don't know what to get, like this could go a million different directions, and so I asked them, "What do you guys recommend?" And they said, "Oh my gosh, have you ever had cioppino?" And if you don't know what cioppino is, it's an Italian soup. It's tomato-based. So it's kind of like a stew, except it's got seafood. There's mussels in there. Oh my God, it's like my favorite food. If I'm ever convicted of some heinous crime and I'm on death row, like I'm ordering cioppino.

11:38.38
AROB: But I was like, I've never had cioppino but I like seafood, and I never would have ordered that on my own because it is involved, but they were like, "Oh my gosh, you have to try this, it's the best around." I got it and that became kind of like, you know, we...

11:53.77
AROB: We were like joking as I was eating this dish that they told me to order because there's mussels in there, there's shrimp, there's everything, and you know you dip your bread. But I never would have ordered that had it not been for their encouragement. And then because they said order this, it became something that kind of almost gave us more conversation to have as a result. So that's my cioppino story. And I still love cioppino. I had some when I was in New Orleans a couple months or so ago, and I was like, this is amazing.

12:23.34
AROB: Why don't I eat this every day?

12:25.50
Host: Yeah, be open to new things, right?

12:27.48
AROB: There you go.

12:25.50
Host: I remember my first donor visit ever, the donors insisted that we go get fish tacos and I had never had fish tacos and they just sounded hideous to me.

12:36.37
Host: I was like, well, that's what we're doing.

12:39.34
AROB: Yeah, there you go.

12:39.64
Host: I guess here we go. And I loved them. It introduced me to a whole new world, right? So just got to be open to it and accept their recommendations.

12:51.09
Host: Good. So let's move into, you've ordered and now food is arriving. What's kind of the table etiquette? And maybe I'm going to start this one off. This is one of my biggest pet peeves—is when the food is arriving, wait for everybody to be served before you begin to eat.

13:06.36
AROB: Yes.

13:07.19
Host: And this is something that my parents drilled hard into me when I was a kid. We didn't do a lot of etiquette stuff, but this was the one. And it's something that I see happen all the time where somebody gets served and starts eating and the rest of the table is still sitting there waiting for them. So I think that's something to be very aware of—wait for everybody to be served. Just kind of sit with your hands in your lap and wait a couple minutes before you start eating.

13:27.79
AROB: Yeah, especially if you're at like a—if there's a big group of you, right? If it's one-on-one, generally speaking, unless there's a problem with the dish in the kitchen and it got delayed. You know, if it's three of you or four of you, your wait time is going to be minimal.

13:42.04
AROB: If you are with kind of a larger group, it's possible that somebody's dish didn't turn out right or got dropped or whatever, and it's going to take a while. They're going to have to completely remake it. In that situation...

13:52.40
AROB: If it's you, you should definitely say, "Please don't wait for me. Please start eating your food while it's hot." But if nobody says that, don't take it upon yourself to say, "Where's my fork?"

14:03.09
AROB
Let's go. Because you're right.

14:04.74
Host
Right.

14:04.77
AROB
It's a bad look. And, you know, it's those little things that people are going to remember after their dinner. Again, remember, do no harm, right? You don't want them going home talking about what a sloppy dinner guest you were.

14:17.22
AROB
And waiting for everybody to get their food is very simple to do, but it goes a long way.

14:22.74
Host
Exactly. And maybe I'll take that back even to ordering. Something that sticks out in my mind—this wasn't in a professional setting, but 20 years ago, I was at a dinner where the waiter said, "Hey, are we ready to order?" And not everybody was, but somebody said, "Oh, I'll put my order in and you guys can do it later."

14:35.49
Host
I still remember that moment from 20 years ago.

14:37.39
AROB
Yeah.

14:38.97
Host
Don't do that. If not everybody's ready to order, you wait for your order too. Just be common courtesy. Just wait for everybody else.

14:44.47
AROB
Yeah. Yeah.

14:45.94
Host
And kind of with all these rules, the standard etiquette is if the person insists, right? If the person insists that you go ahead and eat, then it's perfectly fine and you should go ahead and eat, right?

14:54.26
AROB
Right. Right. Yeah. Yep.

14:57.24
Host
Great. What are some other tips for table etiquette during the meal?

15:01.08
AROB
Yeah. So don't lean or reach across the table, right? If you need salt, you need butter, you know, "Could you please pass the whatever?" and always say thank you, right?

15:11.27
AROB
Like just keep your hands...

15:11.94
Host
Right.

15:13.03
AROB
It's kind of like, you know, the line about when you're on an airplane, right? Like "keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all times," right?

15:22.40
Host
Right.

15:22.68
AROB
Think of your chair as like your airplane while you're eating, right? You don't need to be reaching, you don't need to be diving over the table. Ask for people to pass it and it goes a long way.

15:36.56
Host
What about when somebody asks you to pass something like the salt and pepper? Any tips there?

15:40.79
AROB
Sure, so pass them together, even if they just ask for the salt. And then I like to grab one in each hand and move them along. Don't try to grab both of them on the top. Keep your hands off of the top of the salt and pepper shaker, right? Grab them from the bottom or the middle. And then if somebody asks you to pass them...

15:58.78
AROB
Don't pause to use them, right? So if somebody says, "Hey, could you pass the salt?" don't say, "Yeah, just a second, let me season my food first." No, just give it to them and be extra polite in that situation.

16:09.77
Host
Great.

16:12.85
Host
How about passing other things like bread that's going to go around, or maybe salad dressings, depending on the situation, that's going to kind of go around the table? Any etiquette there?

16:22.33
AROB
Yeah, so this is more like if you're at a gala with like an eight-top, right? There's always a bowl of bread or rolls or biscuits or whatever. Here in Texas, we have a lot of cornbread. And then if you have a salad, there might be like a single or even two dressings—usually a ranch and an Italian dressing salad plate. And so the rules are, if you are starting the passing, then you take the bowl, right? The bread, let's start with that.

16:51.62
AROB
You offer it first to the person on your left. If they take it or they don't, then you take it back, you put a roll on your plate, and then you pass it to the right, right?

17:03.28
AROB
I don't know why that's the rule, but that's just the rule, and enough people have seen and have been at events that they know that's the rule. And same thing for the salad dressing, right?

17:11.27
Host
Makes sense.

17:14.32
AROB
So present it to the person on your left, dress your own salad and then pass it to the right. One thing that I have found that I like to do, if I'm at an event like this and there is a bread basket on there—it can be, depending on where it is on the table, if it's an eight-top or a ten-top, it could be all the way a mile and a half across the table.

17:36.80
AROB
It can be awkward for people to ask to start passing the bread. Like nobody wants to do it, but that's something that I'm comfortable with. I've been to enough of these events that I know, so I usually will start by making a comment. You know, we've all sat down, got our napkins in our lap.

17:56.54
AROB
They haven't brought the food yet, and I will actually say something like, "Hey, would anybody like a roll? It's over there. I can't reach it, but if anybody wants to grab it and start passing it—you know, that bread looks really tasty." Just kind of taking the lid off of that and saying, "Let's start this." Other people at the table might actually appreciate it, and you can still kind of use your etiquette to do it.

18:20.91
Host
Great. Any tips for how to present yourself while you're at the table eating? Anything there?

18:25.52
AROB
Keep your elbows off the table. That was like the rule from all the old movies where you put your elbows on and they slap it with a ruler or whatever. Use basic manners. If you do have to blow your nose, sometimes you go to a meal with a sniffle or whatever, don't do it at the table. Stand up, walk away, and blow your nose. And then don't use your napkin—get a paper towel or a tissue. And then don't pick your teeth. I mean, that would be like...

18:55.27
AROB
Your guests are definitely going to cringe if you start picking your teeth while you're sitting at the table. And that's where it comes down to basic manners, right? Elbows off the table, don't pick your teeth, don't blow your nose, all those kinds of things.

19:12.33
Host
How about with the process of eating itself? As you're eating, what are the etiquette rules there?

19:17.07
AROB
Yeah, so take small bites. Chew with your mouth closed. Don't talk with food in your mouth. Don't double dip if there's a common dish. Don't double dip chips or salsa or anything like that. And if you have bread, it's good practice to tear the bread into small pieces, butter a little bit, or use your knife and cut it. Oh wait, no, it says do not cut your bread with a knife. So don't do that. Yeah. So it's good practice to tear little pieces of your roll off and then butter them individually. Don't use your knife to cut it. That's weird. And don't just shove the whole thing in your mouth.

19:58.42
Host
Yeah, that's an interesting one. That's not what I would have expected—you know, grab the bread and start tearing it into pieces. Yeah, that was one that I was never quite certain of what is the best approach.

20:09.96
AROB
There you go.

20:10.23
Host
I've seen people do that and it just kind of feels a little bit more hands-on than anything else in a formal dinner setting. But that is what it is. I think one of the key points you made earlier there was to take small bites, right?

20:22.93
Host
There's nothing more awkward than when your donor asks you a question and you just took a giant bite of something and they got to watch you chew for a minute and a half.

20:31.01
AROB
Yeah.

20:31.19
Host
Just take small bites so that you can be ready to swallow and talk when called upon.

20:36.58
AROB
Yep. If you get soup, use your spoon to stir it to cool it off, don't blow on it. And then, you know, there's that—I don't think that I've ever been able to do this, but the proper way to eat soup is to dip it away from yourself, wipe the bottom on the side of the bowl away from yourself and then bring the spoon to your mouth.

21:02.52
AROB
I don't know why that's the rule.

21:03.16
Host
Right.

21:03.72
AROB
I don't do that, but that is proper etiquette if you are doing it properly.

21:09.07
Host
Excellent. And then what's kind of the protocol for how to cut your food and bring it to your mouth? I know it's a little bit different actually between Europe and America.

21:17.50
AROB
Yeah.

21:17.61
Host
There's different styles there.

21:19.33
AROB
So take your knife and your fork, right? You hold the food down to your plate with your left hand fork, and then use your right hand to cut it. After you cut it, you put your knife down, you switch your fork over to your right hand, and then you pick the food up and take a bite. So it seems like a little bit of a process, but that's what proper etiquette is. The other thing though is that you want to be strategic in how you eat at a donor meeting, right? Because you don't want to take big bites. You want to be ready to respond, but you also want to make the meal enjoyable and not drag it out, but you don't need to rush through your food. So little things like that—soup spoon away from yourself, tearing your bread into little bits and pieces.

22:10.55
AROB
Cutting, moving your fork, it does kind of prolong the meal, which makes it more of an experience and gives you more time to talk. It gives you more time to be together. So you certainly don't have to rush through, and these etiquette tips will actually kind of make the meal more enjoyable and last longer.

22:29.36
Host
Yeah. And then kind of along with that, you would want to watch the pace of the host, right?

22:34.53
AROB
Yeah.

22:34.67
Host
Or your donor and see, and if there's multiple courses, you want to kind of follow their cue of when to start the next course and so on. So just kind of try to match their pace more or less is what I found to work well.

22:42.06
AROB
Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

22:48.62
Host
How about drinking? Anything specific to mention when it comes to drinking during dinner?

22:53.81
AROB
So if you are served wine, right? A lot of times if you're there with a host and like your friends who go to the same restaurant all the time, they might say, "Well, Ren, do you drink wine?" Yeah, I do.

23:12.05
AROB
"All right, you like red or white?" I like them both, I'm whatever, I'm a fundraiser, I'll do whatever you want. Then they say, "How about we order a bottle of red and we'll share it?" So at a fancy, nicer dinner, it's not uncommon to order a bottle of wine and share it.

23:27.70
Host
Right.

23:29.01
AROB
A bottle typically gets four glasses out of it. I learned that when I was a server many years ago. And in most cases, your waiter will pour the first glass for you and then it's usually the host who will refill glasses, right?

23:42.61
AROB
So just little things like that. But if that is the case, I know we talked earlier about not necessarily drinking alcohol, but if you're serving wine, then be sure to moderate your wine drinking with water drinking, right?

23:58.42
AROB
So, I had a friend, this was funny, this was in college, and he was kind of a big drinker, and we would end up hanging out and drinking, and he would always have like a bottle of water. We're like, "Oh, why are you drinking all that water?" He's like, "You got to hydrate, Andrew." Very different reasons, right? But it's kind of the same idea. Number one, it just kind of makes it look like you're not just a total lush and drinking all the wine that you can. But also, it does keep you a little bit more—you know, that kind of wards off the effects of the alcohol by drinking more water.

24:41.80
Host
Got it. Can I pause here quick? Do you know the process for when they bring out a bottle for you to check it?

24:43.71
AROB
Yes. Yeah.

24:49.18
Host
What—I have no idea what's happening in that situation.

24:51.98
AROB
Yeah.

24:52.69
Host
So I'm gonna let me ask you about that.

24:53.85
AROB
Yeah. Yeah.

24:55.14
Host
All right, so I want to pause there. When it comes to the wine, say that you order a bottle of wine and it comes out, oftentimes the waiter, there's a kind of a process that happens. I've never been the one that does this, thank goodness, because I don't know what's happening.

25:04.07
AROB
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

25:09.16
Host
They pour out a little bit and they hand you the glass and it seems like they kind of sniff it. I don't know if you're supposed to taste it or you're not supposed to taste it. There's all kinds of rules, it seems, around this process. What's happening there and what are you supposed to do?

25:20.58
Host
What's the waiter looking for?

25:22.06
AROB
Okay, great. So, good question because it's weird and if you're not used to it—if you're used to it, it's probably weird not to go through this process, I guess. I don't know.

25:31.50
Host
Right.

25:32.01
AROB
But typically if somebody at the table orders a bottle of wine, right—as a server, so I'll put myself in server position—as a server, I'm going to come out and the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to show them the bottle and they're going to say, "Yep, that's the one I wanted."

25:45.23
AROB
Okay. So then I'm going to use my corkscrew to open the bottle. I'm going to hand the cork to the person that ordered it. All the interaction is between the waiter and the person that ordered the bottle, right?

25:56.96
AROB
So I'm going to hand the cork to them and what they're typically going to do is they're going to smell the cork, right?

25:56.97
Host
Okay.

26:03.91
AROB
I guess they're smelling for something funky or if it's spoiled, but they're going to get those aromas going. They're going to take the cork and then they're probably going to set it down. Then as the waiter, I'm going to take that bottle, pour a little bit into the host's glass and hand that glass to the host—again, the person that ordered the wine. They will usually kind of swirl it around, smell it, and then take a sip. This is to—I have a friend that I play basketball with and he's a sommelier, so I'm sure he would be horrified that I'm explaining it in this way and not understanding it.

26:38.90
AROB
But that's okay. I don't think David listens to this podcast anyway, so we're good. But it's all about kind of just making sure that what I ordered in that bottle is what I expected and what I'm getting. So they'll taste it and then they'll say, "Yep, it tastes great." And then that waiter will usually take everybody else's glass that's drinking, pour their glass, and then they'll go back and top off the host's glass last. Then they put the bottle down.

27:08.26
AROB
If it's a red, they'll put it on the table. If it's a white, they usually have like a bowl with ice in it because white wine is chilled generally. And then that sits on the table for refills. If it's four people, like I said, usually that's going to be four glasses out of a bottle. So there's not going to be a bottle to sit around. But if it's just two of you or three of you, there will be a little bit left in the bottle.

27:32.47
AROB
So there you go.

27:33.02
Host
Gotcha. I learned something.

27:34.85
AROB
So as the orderer, you have kind of a couple of steps to go through. If you're the guest, all you have to do is accept the glass whenever they hand it to you and know that they're going to kind of go through this process.

27:46.36
Host
Perfect. That's where I've always been in my situation and I've always been, I hope they don't ask me because I don't know what's going on here.

27:51.97
AROB
Yeah, but let's say—so let's bring it to the point. So let's say this because it kind of goes to ordering. So, you know, you're with somebody and they say, "Hey, let's get a bottle of wine. I don't care what, but pick something off the wine menu that you like," right? Like, oh my gosh.

28:08.04
AROB
Think about it—ordering food is going to be a lot of pressure. Ordering a bottle of wine from places all over the world that you've never heard of that can be anywhere from $24 to $640—it's a lot of pressure.

28:20.39
Host
Right.

28:21.66
AROB
Typically, if you don't know, what I like to do is ask the waiter, "Is there a house red or a house white?"

28:34.95
AROB
That's a kind of easy way to get out of a tricky situation. Most of the time they're going to have something, and they're going to say "yes," so that's what you can order.

28:39.68
Host
What does that mean?

28:42.33
AROB
Um, if they...

28:43.70
Host
I guess let's stop there. What does that mean, a house red or house white?

28:46.45
AROB
Sorry, yeah, it's a good point. So it's whatever that restaurant has determined as their generic wine. They've picked that wine for when somebody comes up and says, "I want a glass of red wine" to the bartender, they're just going to pour this.

28:47.72
Host
I see.

29:02.08
AROB
It's the same bottle. Usually, it's fairly inexpensive.

29:04.34
Host
Gotcha.

29:05.24
AROB
It's going to be good because a lot of people drink it, but it's definitely not top shelf. If you are more familiar with cocktails, that would be considered the well tequila or the well spirits. It's a brand, but it's not something that you would usually recognize, so you can ask for the house and that's usually going to be, depending on the restaurant, kind of on the lower-priced but still drinkable and enjoyable. If there's not a house red or a house white, then usually you're looking at a wine menu.

29:17.75
Host
Okay. Gotcha.

29:40.65
AROB
If they kind of put you in the position to order, then what I usually do is say, "Okay, well, what would you like? Would you like a red? Would you like a white?" If they say, "Let's get a red," then you pick something off the wine menu. The types of red wine are going to be, for the most part, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon...

30:01.63
AROB
Now, Malbecs are very popular. Those would be your three, I guess. Pinot Noir would be another red. But the safest wines when you're talking about red are going to be a Cabernet Sauvignon—so you can call it a Cabernet—or Merlot.

30:28.16
AROB
So look at the menu and pick the least expensive or maybe like the second least expensive one and say, "What do you think about this one?" If they want a white, then usually you're going to go with a Chardonnay or a Pinot Grigio.

30:44.62
AROB
There are a lot of other varieties, but those are pretty much your go-tos.

30:50.11
Host
Perfect.

30:50.88
AROB
Yeah, I'm not an expert in this. Again, if we want to get David on to teach us all about wine, I'm sure he could talk for four hours about wine and still have more to say, but that'll get you through 95% of your donor dinners.

31:06.11
Host
Yeah, and it seems like the times that I've had this come up, the donor has been very knowledgeable and you can kind of lean on them to ask, "What are you looking for?" or "What do you want?"

31:16.27
Host
One note, I think, with drinking wine: hold the glass by the stem, not by the cup of the glass. Right? And maybe that goes with tea—you've got to have your pinky out.

31:24.14
AROB
Sure.

31:27.20
Host
Right. And maybe not on this side of the ocean. I'm not sure.

31:31.52
AROB
Yeah. Also, not with wine, but with water—if you finish your water, be courteous and ask if anybody else would like their water glass filled as well.

31:44.01
AROB
If there's a pitcher on the table.

31:46.32
Host
Great. So I think that kind of takes us through the meal itself. Let's get to wrapping up at the end of the meal.

31:52.00
AROB
Okay.

31:52.12
Host
When you're finished, what should you do with your plates and silverware?

31:55.69
AROB
Okay. So when you're finished, leave your plate in the same place. Don't push it away or stack anything. And then you take your knife and fork and lay them diagonally... side by side, pointing 10 and 4? Right? 10 and 4 on a clock? Wait, side by side, pointing at 10 and 4. That's not right.

32:16.37
AROB
Oh yeah, sorry. I was thinking... I didn't have a good vision of my clock. So okay, you leave your plates where they are. You don't push them away. You don't stack everything on them. And then you take your knife and fork and lay them diagonally across the plate. This signifies that you are done. Then the waitstaff can come over and say, "Are you done?" "Yes, please take it." And they'll remove your plate and all your dishes.

32:43.38
Host
What if you have some food left over? Should you ask for a to-go box?

32:47.45
AROB
No, unless your host or donor insists, "Oh, you don't want to leave that, take it home. You'll enjoy it later" or "Your wife or husband will enjoy it later." Don't make it feel like you just came for the meal and you're trying to get as much out of it. So don't ask for a to-go box. If they take it, say, "Yes, it was wonderful. I'm just not that hungry." Or you can say, "Yes, it was great. Thank you very much," and then let them take it.

33:21.07
Host
Great. So now maybe the trickiest part of a dinner: the check is coming.

33:24.86
AROB
Ah, yes.

33:26.02
Host
How do you approach that situation?

33:28.22
AROB
Okay. So generally speaking, and this is beyond just donor meetings, the person that initiates the meal is the one that's going to pay for it. With development and fundraising, usually we're the ones calling to schedule the dinner, the meal...

33:49.55
AROB
So then it's our responsibility to pay for it.

33:52.86
Host
Right.

33:56.40
AROB
You don't want to invite somebody to a meal and then make them pay for it, right?

34:00.93
Host
Yeah.

34:03.63
AROB
Now, this can get a little bit awkward when your donor says, "No, no, no, I want to pay for it." This is kind of classic push-back: "No, no, no, I invited you, I'll pay." "No, no, please. You guys do a lot. I want to pay for it." Okay, great. So usually what I do is say, "No, no, it's not necessary. I invited you." One time. And if they say, "No, no, please. I insist," I say, "Great. Well, thank you so much. That's very generous. I wasn't expecting that." So don't make it feel like you invited them and then you're expecting them to pay for it.

34:37.61
AROB
I've been in situations where I invite somebody and then they order appetizers and wine and dessert—it's a pretty pricey meal. In that case, usually they'll offer to pick it up, not always. If they don't, it's still worth it to you and your organization to pick up that tab.

34:56.27
AROB
A lot of times if you think it's going to be awkward, or there are multiple people and you don't want it to be like a weird fight at dinner about who's going to pay, I'll excuse myself and say, "Excuse me, I've got to run to the restroom." I'll get up and run to the restroom. When I come back, I'll find the waiter and say, "Excuse me..."

35:15.90
AROB
I would like to pay for the meal. Don't offer it, don't stick it in the middle—hand it to me. I can even give you a credit card now to pay for it. If you're with multiple families, that can be really awkward and uncomfortable if people are fighting over it, so just preempt that, take it off the table and say "Hand me the bill."

35:24.26
Host
Right.

35:36.05
AROB
Or "I'll give you my credit card and run it." Don't even offer it to the table, so they don't know what's going on necessarily. Make it easy for the waitstaff by preempting that awkward conversation.

35:46.90
Host
How about the tip then? What would you do? What's your recommendation for how much to leave for a tip?

35:51.87
AROB
Generally speaking, you're going to fall into the tipping norms, which is 15 to 20%—15 for decent, serviceable service and 20% for excellent.

36:04.79
AROB
Again, going back to earlier about being rude or displeased with the staff—not a good look for you to be put out by the bill or be put out by the meal, express that to the donors and then say, "I'm not going to tip them" or "I'm going to give them a low tip."

36:19.00
AROB
Most of the time they're not even going to know what you're tipping, but it's not a good look.

36:21.85
Host
Right, and...

36:23.71
AROB
Don't do that. Just say, "It was great. I really enjoyed the conversation with you," even if the food was terrible. "Really enjoyed the conversation with you. Thank you so much," and leave a 15 to 20% tip.

36:34.94
Host
Yeah, I want to add one tip. I think we talked about this in a recent episode, maybe as we were talking about major gifts, the process in general. But I would always have some extra cash in your wallet just in case.

36:46.44
Host
I've had two different donor meetings that I can remember where I got to... I had a nice dinner, and then the restaurant said, "Oh, we only take cash or check, we don't take credit cards." Like, what?

36:56.95
AROB
Got it. Got it.

36:57.77
Host
Right? And one of these wasn't a big... it was in Milwaukee, it was in a big city. I was not expecting it at all. One of them was in a more rural place. But you don't want to be in that situation without having a way to pay for it.

37:09.83
AROB
Yeah.

37:10.15
Host
And luckily, both times it happened to me, the donor had already offered to pay and they had it taken care of, but I would not have been prepared, especially the first time. So you want to, just in case, have some cash ready to go.

37:21.19
AROB
Yeah, that's a good point. I don't do that, but I would—that's a really good point.

37:28.52
Host
Excellent. And I think the final tip there is just to always be grateful for the person.

37:32.47
AROB
Yeah, right.

37:32.71
Host
Show your gratitude for the person joining you for dinner. And if they paid, be extra grateful there and thank them for joining you.

37:39.56
AROB
There you go.

37:41.64
Host
Excellent. That's what we have in terms of etiquette for a formal dinner. Anything else you want to add or anything to wrap up?

37:47.94
AROB
Well, not to wrap up, but I don't think we touched on dessert, which could be another one of those kind of awkward moments, right?

37:52.10
Host
Ah, true.

37:54.22
AROB
So after the meal—and this kind of applies for appetizers as well—usually your waiter will come around and they'll say, "Would you like an appetizer to start with?"

38:04.69
AROB
Usually what I do is say, "What about you? Would you care for anything?" Kind of pose it to your guests. And if they say, "Yeah, I love the oysters," of course...

38:17.67
AROB
Then, "Okay, great, that sounds good." But if they say, "No, that's fine, not necessary," then say, "Nope, great, we'll be ordering in just a minute, just give us a few minutes." And then at the end, it's the same kind of situation for dessert or even coffee. If the conversation is going well, it seems like they want to stick around for a bit or they'd be willing to, then take that as an opportunity. Hey, I've got more time with these folks. If you're not pressed for time, you can hang out, have more conversation, it's relaxed. Even if you don't want dessert, ordering coffee at a restaurant is a great way to add a few more minutes onto the end and cap it off. The waitstaff's going to come around to clear off plates and they'll say, "Did we save room for dessert?"

39:08.33
AROB
I'll say, "What would you like, John and Steve?" or "John and Nancy, what do you think about dessert? Would you like anything?" And if they say, "Oh my God, I'm so stuffed..."

39:21.00
AROB
Don't order the crème brûlée and say, "Oh, I really want it. I'm going to eat it." Say "We're good."

39:26.10
Host
Right.

39:26.14
AROB
"What about coffee? Would you like any coffee?" "I don't know. What would you think?" "Yeah, I'll have decaf." So use those as opportunities to be courteous, right?

39:38.71
AROB
To show that kind of hospitality to your guests, even though you're at a restaurant. And again, if they don't want it, don't order it for yourself and eat it in front of them.

39:49.92
Host
Perfect. One final thing I would throw in here is if the person you're meeting for dinner doesn't have good etiquette, don't call them out on it. Right? If they're doing something wrong, they're kind of the host.

40:00.49
AROB
Oh my God.

40:01.55
Host
They're the ones, even if you're the one paying, let them do whatever they want.

40:02.23
AROB
Yeah. I'll go back to my closing comments with how we started episode one and this one. You can do all of this like to the letter, or you can approach it with a "do no harm" mindset, right? I've eaten enough meals, I've had enough donor dinners, I've been in enough banquets. I know kind of how to do this, but if you're just starting out and you weren't raised with etiquette as something that was important...

40:34.83
AROB
Then this is a learned behavior, right? So be observant, model your behavior after your host, the way that they're acting, and do no harm. Don't be obnoxious, don't be put out, put your phone away, all those kinds of things. Just be courteous, polite, do no harm and learn a little bit every time.

41:00.84
Host
Excellent. Well, I think that wraps up Petrus's finishing school for...

41:07.31
AROB
Yeah, perfect.

41:09.21
Host
Great. Thank you, Andrew, for kind of walking us through this. And for you, listener, hopefully this has been helpful and you can gain a few things from these and take them to your next donor meeting. If you would like a list of all these kinds of tips for etiquette, we're going to have it available. Go to PetrusDevelopment.com/158. This is episode 158 of the Petrus Development Show. So you'll find the list downloadable there and you can reference it as needed.

41:33.92
AROB
Well, I hope you have a very Merry Christmas, Rhen, and I hope that all of your kids keep their napkins in their lap and put their knife and fork angled at a diagonal after the meal is over.

41:37.60
Host
You as well.

41:47.00
Host
And drink with our pinkies out, right?

41:48.86
AROB
That's right.

41:50.13
Host
I'm sure that'll happen. Alright, well, Merry Christmas, everybody.

41:51.40
AROB
I'm sure, yeah.

41:55.05
Host
Have a great day.

41:55.70
AROB
Alright, thanks. Bye.